Author Topic: Need to know basics  (Read 4195 times)

Offline KKressler

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Need to know basics
« on: December 17, 2016, 10:19:17 AM »
Hello Folks,

Just walking into the park, I used to be a member at MARS 2013, I think. I like to know, if I join THIS (URRG) club, am I allow to join MARS to be necessary or just one??
I don't know if this URRG have more launch dates available down the road beside on NYPOWER.

If you want to talk with me, just remember you can email me personally. I can give you my home video phone for the deaf to chat with me. Yes, I knew Mike Walsh. I am going to be slow and patient person not being out ambitous person. I am a busy person working. I like to get into mid power to high power. From 29 mm to 38 mm up to L2 certification. Right now I like to take one step at the time. I made too many mistakes back 2013. This year, I am learning to do these right from certain people. I am 60 years old. I like to have someone on my side to give me good advices wisely. I don't grow money on trees. I gave up Remote Control Club.

Here is the thing, I like to know where do this club have monthly meetings? Is it like where MARS go at RIT or what?? When and where?

Sincerely,
Ken Kressler

Offline Bob Krech

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Re: Need to know basics
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2016, 04:30:46 PM »
Welcome to the URRG Forum.

URRG is a non-denominational club.  We don't mind if you belong to more than one club or if you belong to NAR or TRA.

It is quite common for folks to belong to more than one club as being a local club member supports the local hobby, the launch equipment and the acquisition of the launch site.  I belong CMASS and MMMSC in addition to URRG and belong to both TRA and NAR.

URRG, which has the best launch field east of the Mississippi, has members from all over NY state, New England, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Canada.  Because of the diverse membership, meetings tend to occur at the monthly launches.  (That's one of the reasons for this forum.)

URRG has monthly launches usually from April thru December, weather dependent.  Most launches are 2-day events on a Saturday and Sunday since most members have at least a several hour drive to the field.  In June, URRG sponsors either URRF, a 3-day regional launch, or LDRS, the 5-day TRA national launch.  All launches are conducted under TRA Research Rules.  NAR high power members can launch commercial motors to their certification level.   Anyone can launch model rockets.

URRG has 2 L3 hydraulic launch tower, 2 L3 manual/electric launch towers and 4 megaweasel L3 pads, 24 L1/L2 weasel pads, and up to 24 model rocket pads.  All are used at URRF and LDRS, but for the smaller club launches, the number of pads set-up depends on the number of attendees.  URRG has a waiver to 16 kft MSL with windows to higher altitudes which varies with launch, weather and the FAA.

URRG has many High Power Certified members who are more than happy to help you out.   If you have more question, post them here.  I'll also put in a plug for the Rocketry Forum (TRF).  We are the largest web forum dedicated to hobby rocketry.  If yu can't get your questions answered here, you will get an answer on TRF.

Welcome aboard.

Bob Krech, URRG BOD, L2
TRF High Power, Propulsion and Research Forum Administrator
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 04:34:41 PM by Bob Krech »

Offline KKressler

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Re: Need to know basics
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2016, 04:57:55 PM »
Thank you, Bob.

I am still wondering where do this club have their meetings held and when, please?

Sincerely,
Ken

Offline Bob Krech

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Re: Need to know basics
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2016, 07:00:26 PM »
Hi Ken

As I wrote above, URRG does not have regularly scheduled meetings because the average member lives several hours from Potter so you would be lucky to be able to get 3 folks together outside a launch.  The monthly launches are two day events, so meetings if necessary occur at the launch field or at Smugglers Corner, the local bar in Potter, on the Saturday evening of the launch weekend.

The BOD conducts our business via e-mail and telecom since few BOD members live within 100 miles of each other.

Offline KKressler

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Re: Need to know basics
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2016, 09:47:32 PM »
Oh I see. Hmm, I am looking forward to meet some of you folks as soon as launch dates are posted then I'll know when to go.

Offline RKeller

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Re: Need to know basics
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2016, 04:40:36 PM »
welcome to the group Ken! Thanks for joining our forum. Looking forward to seeing you at a lunch!
Riley Keller
URRG
TRA#15415
L1 25 Oct 2014 Estes MDRM CTI H133
L2 25 June 2015 Rocketry Warehouse DYOK, CTI L1030RL 14.7k ft mach 1.57

I'm addicted to building stuff, rockets are just a way to get high

Offline KKressler

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Re: Need to know basics
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2016, 04:41:43 PM »
Hey Bob, I like to thank you for helping me out here. I need to know what insurance would be good for me to have if I am in MARS and URRG, which insurance would you take, Tripoli or NAR?? And why?

I would pick a kit HI-Tech rocket with ebay from LOC or Apogee as a good start with 29 mm motor into 38 mm rocket with special adapter. I would use this rocket as dual deployment later on but I would take the ebay out until I am ready for L2 certification. Right now, 29 mm motor up to G power until I am all go for H or I motor for L1 Certification.

Sincerely,
Ken

Offline Bob Krech

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Re: Need to know basics
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2016, 08:11:08 PM »
Hey Bob, I like to thank you for helping me out here. I need to know what insurance would be good for me to have if I am in MARS and URRG, which insurance would you take, Tripoli or NAR?? And why?

I would pick a kit HI-Tech rocket with ebay from LOC or Apogee as a good start with 29 mm motor into 38 mm rocket with special adapter. I would use this rocket as dual deployment later on but I would take the ebay out until I am ready for L2 certification. Right now, 29 mm motor up to G power until I am all go for H or I motor for L1 Certification.

Sincerely,
Ken
Ken

Today there is little difference between NAR and TRA.  NAR is 50% larger than TRA and has a real model rocket program and gets you a free print magazine.  TRA puts a bit more emphasis on high power and has "Research" rocketry which means if your are TRA L2 certified you can make your own motors.  Both organizations have more than 3500 high power certified members and about half of the high power certified folks belong to both organizations.  NAR or TRA membership is equally good at URRG.  Both offer virtually the same insurance.

Getting your high power certifications is like getting a drivers license: you can't launch L1/L2 motors without it.  Most folks use a family car to take their driving test even if they plan to own a Ferrari, because without the license, you can't legally drive the Ferrari.   This is the approach I recommend for obtaining high power certifications.  You do not need to use electronic deployment for either L1 or L2 certification, however if the rocket is near minimum diameter, you probably need it to make recovery easier.

I personally like LOC rockets.  They are reasonably low cost, are very easy to assemble, and virtually all can be assembled using TiteBond wood glue.  The 2.6" HiTech is a fine rocket that flies fine on F and G motors as well as high power mtors, but you need to be aware that a 2.6" rocket will go rather high on L1 and L2 motors.  It will apogee at 1500'-1800' on a G, 2800'-3300' on an H, 3600'-5000' on an I and over a mile on a J.  This isn't necessarily a problem, but you need to be aware that smaller rockets using high power motors are harder to follow with 60ish eyes and can be easily lost on a farm with crops if you do not use tracking electronics and/or dual deployment electronics.

While many will disagree, I recommend doing your L1 flight, and your L2 cert with/without electronics, on a simple 4" 4FNC rocket.  The 4" LOC FANTOM 438 EXL will also fly on high thrust G motors without the payload section or electronics, but will also fly fine with H,I and J motors, especially with dual deployment with electronics.  The kit comes with all the necessary parts for dual deployment except for the altimeter.  It will apogee at 700-800' on a G, 1100'-1700' on an H, 1700'-3000' on an I and over 3000'on a J. 

 I would use 38 mm casings: 1G casings for G motors; 2G casings for H motor; 3G and 4G for I motors and 5G and 6G for J motors.  If you buy certification special kits: a 3G and 6G case and (2) 1G spacers, your can launched any 1G thru 6G reload by purchasing only 2 cases.

Bob

Offline KKressler

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Re: Need to know basics
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2016, 08:53:11 PM »
Wow, that's a lot of rocket, don't you think that I should go for Madcow DX3 or Torrent???

I looked at the recommend kit you suggested. As I read the other beginner as you recently suggested that DX3 would be fine, it is not??

Sincerely,
Ken

Offline Bob Krech

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Re: Need to know basics
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2016, 01:45:32 AM »
The DX3 MadCows come in a number of weights and .diameters  ranging from 2.6" fiberboard to 8" fiberglass https://www.madcowrocketry.com/dx3/  The most cost effective of an L1 cert than can also be launched on mid power motors is this 2.6" DX3 kit for $69.  https://www.madcowrocketry.com/jr-level-1-certification-package-2-6-dx3/  Get a 3G 29 mm casing and (2) 1G grains spacers and you're good to go with F, G and low H impulse motors.
 
It's a really fine mid-power kit that will launch just fine on F and G motor as well as H motors for an L1 cert.  An L1 cert flight would apogee at ~ 2300.  Overall it will apogee at 600'-900' on an F motor, 1300'-2300'  on a G, 2200'-3400' on an H, and over 3400'on an I.  The  only issue you have is the wind drift on an H.  It will drift 1000' downwind on a full G in a 5 mph wind, 2000' in a 10 mph wind and 4000' in a 20 mph wind, so you really want a low wind day to launch it on an H.

You can go to http://www.thrustcurve.org/motorguide.jsp and make the prediction I made above.

The LOC Fantom EXL is equivalent to an XL version of the 4" Fiberboard Super DX3 https://www.madcowrocketry.com/4-super-dx3/  The principal difference is that the LOC has all the extra parts in the $150 price whereas the $90 Super DX3 doesn't include chutes, shock cords, payload compartment, etc. but the basic price of a 4" 4FNC with electronics bay will be $150 or more.  Either would be fine for an L1 and L2 cert, but would need to be flown with the payload on a high thrust G to fit into the Model Rocket FAA Class 1 status.

The choice is entirely yours.  If you're in not rush and what to launch mostly F and G motors with an occasional H, the 2.6" DX3 is an inexpensive way to go.  If you already have mid-power rocket, and really want to quickly get your L1 and L2 this year, a 4" rocket is the more economical way to get to L2 quickly.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 01:51:11 AM by Bob Krech »